>Malcom Cato: Be careful what you say James, Trouble is here and the tape is rolling

>James Bell: The worst temptation in the world is...money. If you put a million dollars in front of me the first person I am going to give it to is me.

>Gerald: Are you saying that you are a crook?

>James Bell: Every one is a crook at heart. All you need is the right temptation. It's like that girl I met on the airplane. I said to her, hey miss, would you sleep with me for a million dollars? She said, why, yes sir! I said to her would you sleep with me for $50? She said, NO! What kind of a girl do you think I am? It seemed to me that we had already established that, we are just negotiating a price.

>James Trouble: What price brings you to England sir?

>JB: To see my friends Gerald and Malcom. To talk over some business, about an engagement at the Jazz Cafe. I am going to be linking up with the Soul Destroyers. I have heard their stuff it is very good.

>JT: Yeah, they are great. But I tell you what has really amazed me is the current craze for the highlighters band. I get more requests when I DJ for Popping Popcorn, and Sixteen Corners, than I do for James Brown.

>JB: That makes me feel good that something I put together 31 years ago is being appreciated at this late date in my life.

>JT: Was there a big following for your band when you first got together 31 years ago?

>JB: Yes, because back then everyone associated it with James Brown. But we did not see it like that. We thought that was our own sound. We did not try to copy off of James Brown. It was the highlighters sound. We were all enthusiastic about putting our sound together. And for the people to hear.

>JT: When was it that this sound first started to come together? Was it when you recorded Popping?

>JB: Actually, as far as coming together in August 1968 we felt we were coming together then. We were doing at that time other peoples music, but we knew what each of us were thinking, you know? And when we recorded Popping Popcorn that was a product of James Boone and Cliff Palmer. We all had parts to play, but they were the ones who came up with the idea. And we went from there. We were a self contained group. We had a vocalist, who I was the main vocalist but practically every one in the group sang. And every thing we did was as a unit. We were one. We were comprised as six, but stood out as a one. We worked well together. And you see, the Highlighters was a highschool group. And then after they got out of high school they went into the army. They made a promise to themselves that they could rejoin the band when they return. But the problem was at that time they had not made any records. So when I got out of service the guitar player, James Brantley asked me to join the band. He had just got out, so I did. And then Wayne Garvin the drummer from Sixteen Corners and Popping Popcorn got out he joined the group. That was when we started doing something. And my point was that t it is nice that you made that promise to each other, but the drummer had as much to do with us being where we are today. But no one agreed with me when the original drummer got out. We always done things by democratic majority rule. But I'll tell you what, the original drummer, the Funky Buzzard went on to play with Marvin Gaye. That shows what talent he has.

>JT: You said you were in the Army?

>JB: Yeah.

>Gerald: With Elvis.

>JB: Yeah I was in a platoon with Elvis. We were good friends, I have pictures of us. We used to stay up at night you know. He was a real good singer. You know he sounds good on his recordings, but he could sing better. He sang real heavy blues with me. We sang well together.

>Gerald: Tell Trouble about the Funky Buzzard track that you have got on CD.

>JB: Yeah, It is called walk by the sea, and I think we are going to be putting this out real soon. But the problem is it is on 15 IPS cos everything back then was low quality.

>JT: When you first came together, was it as a studio band, or was you heart set on live work?

>JB: Live.

>JT: And what kind of places were you playing at live?

>JB: We played at Dave’s Country Club, which was very popular after hours club. After all the other clubs closed.

>JT: So would that have been an illegal club, when you say after hours?

>JB: Everything is legal until the police close it down. You can run a stop light, as long as you do not get caught. It was not my problem, because they did not arrest bands.

>JT: Cold you tell us a little bit about these clubs that you played in. What kind of stuff went on?

>JB: There was dancing. We were definitely a dance bend. We played everything that was popular at that time. We played everything that was on the radio in Indianapolis. If it was on the radio on a Monday, and it was a good tune, then Thursday when you came to hear us play, we played it. But our band was so tight, we would rehearse every Tuesday, every week we would have atleast two brand new songs to play. And play right. We were the most democratic band I ever played in. No one called the shots. We got to rehearsal at 7 o'clock and started. We cut off at 9 o'clock.

>JT: How many nights a week would you play at a club?

>JB: Thursday, Friday, Saturday. But you know, when we played sixteen corners, everybody would get up and dance. There would be no one sitting down. And what we also did was comedy. We would have an interval were I would tell jokes and make people laugh. Comedy, you know. But what we were doing was not trying to progress the sound, or do what people had done in the past. We were inspired by people having a good time. This was our only inspiration. Would the people like this? That was the way our sound was developed. Will the people like this. We were playing so many different types of music in that period. They say the funk era. But there was so many different styles of music being played then. You had the Temptations, you had Dyke and The Blazers. The Dells, All kinds of groups, and you can not classify all that stuff as funk, because it wasn't. We had ballards, and standards and alot of Jazz artists had started doing commercial tunes. For instance, Grazing in the Grass, we were playing that. We had to play it, but that is not funk. But you see the guy we were playing for; Daddy Ray, he had plenty money, plenty money! He was in the numbers racked. Every body wanted to work there because the other clubs did not pay the kind of money that Daddy Ray payed. Daddy Ray wanted the best and he did not mind paying the money for it. I was working at Ford Motor company, but on those three nights I was making one and a half times more than at Ford. Ford was one of the best paying jobs in the city as well. Daddy Ray payed us good. At that particular time, Ford was paying $3.17 an hour. Daddy Ray gave us nine fifty, a week. Nine hundred and fifty. We took one hundred and fifty dollars a piece and put the rest to one side. But this is when a good job was only paying hundred twenty dollars. Working 40 hours a week.

>JT: Did you have a DJ in the club as well, or just the band?

>JB: No, just us. We didn't mess with no DJ's back then. They had a juke box. But one week we played behind this one guy. We did not have to do alot, but we just went along while he tap danced. And this other week we had this woman who would break glass on herself. I told the manager of the club that she would be trouble, but they went ahead and booked her. So we were playing away, and this woman was breaking this glass on her. Then these guys in the audience shouted out that the glass was not real. So this woman went and smashed this bottle on the table, and stuck it in her side! There was blood all over the place! Man. She was like; "No fake, no fake" I am looking at all this blood every where, and ran back to the office and got Daddy Ray to come out, and I said, Daddy Ray, I told you not to hire that fool! The ambulance came and took this woman away, cause she was bleeding like a hog, man. Like a hog. Ouch! We had wild experiences.

>JT: Tell us about the comedy stuff.

>JB: Well it was so long ago. See later I toured with my band, “The Naptown Players Showband.” . We had fun doing what we were doing. After returning from a Canadian Tour, we did a gig in Springfield, Tennessee. I remember the band use to play the Funky Tramp. (music), and then I would come out all dressed up as “Harold The Funky Hobo.” Like this old ketchup stained coat. and big old boots, with tape around them, and these cracked orange sun glasses. I I did this one joke. I went into this night club, and everything in there cost a lot of money. This waitress came over and asked me what I wanted, I said; I say I,I, Ho,ho,ho,ho,how, mmmmmuch is your Scotch? She said, Our Scotch is $25. So I say.DDDDamn that's high. H,H,ho,ho,how,mmmmmmmumuch is ya BBBBBourban? Sir our Bourbon is $20. I say, TTTTTTTo DDamn hhigh. HHHHow mmmuch is ya bbeer? Well sir our beer is $2. I say, BBBrrring mme one! So she brings in a beer. I say to her, hhhhohohow come yyyyou are lllllllllllllaughing at me!? She replies, what would I be laughing at you for sir? I say, bbbbbbecccause I sstutter. She replies; Well sir I have a hump in my back and nobody laughs at me. I say; TTTThat's aaa bbbump? What did you think it was, she says to me. I say, WWWWell, EEEEEEEEEEEverything else is so high in this place I thought it was your damn arse!

>All of us: hysterical laughter.

>JB: But any way, people were just falling out of their chairs man, I mean people people were sliding off the side of their chair they were on the floor kicking. And I was like it was never that funny. You know. It is funny, but not that damn funny. These people have got their clean clothes on, yo know.They were on the floor holding their sides and shit. So any way, I told alot of other jokes, but after I finished I went off stage and changed clothes. And at the time the guy who hired me, he lived around there. Cliff Blakemoore. He was one of the partners who owned the club, but I ain't never met the other one. So Cliff he said, come over here, I want you to meet the other owner, Buck. So I walked over there with him. He introduced me to the other owner. He introduced me to Buck, 'This is James Bell'. Buck said" I I I I I I II 'm ppppppleased tttto meeet you." I was like holy shit!

>All of us: Histerical laughter for 5 minutes.

>JB: Man that fucked me up! But he didn't give a shit, you know what I mean. He told me how much he enjoyed it. I just thought, man you never know, do you?

>Cato: You talked about what influenced you, I would say that alot of your influence was drawn from the political atmosphere of the time?

>JB: It influenced some of the music.

>MC: It seems to me that after the assassinations, there was a change in the music. It is a harder sound.

>JB: Alot of things go into the influence of music. And you have to remember one thing. Sometimes people collaborate and write together. But basically, the idea comes from an individual. So it may have influenced that individual at that time, and then once he put the music out there there was a lot of people that heard it and they say , okay, now I'm angry or I am this or that. But the idea came from an individual. Because you never know what will happen at the other end. You express what you think, or feel. And if happens to coincide with what people are thinking. That what these people are thinking but do not know how to put into words, then you touch something. You then got a good seller.

>JT: There is alot of anger in many of the best records. Was that from the conditions that people grew up in?

>JB: Well all of that is going into changing the music scene. Like Woodstock. That was basically a protest. Allot of things can take off from that kind of thing.

>JT: Did alot of people dance to the crazes? You know we here alot of dance craze records. The funky chicken, Duck Walk, Sixteen Corners. Did people all dance like the records told them or what?

>JB: Definitely.

>JT: How did people do the sixteen corners?

>JB: It tells ya in the record. Just swing your hips out in the direction that the record tells ya. One to the left and all that. And you did the popcorn untill you had to swing your hips.

>JT: What about the popcorn? How do you do that?

>JB: It was kind of a dance that you basically stood in one place, and like the record said, just bounce around a little bit. To the left to the right.

>JT: Did you have a bunch of groupies that followed you around? You know, like girls and stuff, that went back stage?

>JB Very, very big following. Yes.

>JT: What like girls, they must have wanted you?

>JB: For the record I am a married man, and I will take the fifth amendment, but I wasn't dead!

>Gerald: For us the Golden Period is between 68 and 72. Do you see music falling apart after that?

>JB: I would not be the right person to answer that question because God gave me a gift to do any type of music and do it well. I sing Country and Western. I do Jazz, I do Ballards I do standards. I am often compared to Billy Egstine(Spelling?) . I turn around and do Frank Sinatra stuff. A song is a song to me. Music is music. If I like it, I do it. Every one is an individual, you see. And there are some people that would think that the very last tunes that Marvin Gaye did are some of his best. The joy of music. That is it. There is something there for everybody. You might not like a certain type of music, but some one is doing something that you like.

>Malcom Cato: I think there is something though about the sixties. It comes from the production. It just makes it better.

>Trouble: That is very myopic Mal'. I agree to a degree, but some disco is great music, even some jazz funk. Dare I say it, some house.

>Gerald: Did you get that on tape, I will make you print that Trouble!

>JB: Yeah, but for some people the disco period was the best time. And for other people they think that the 20s and 30s and 40s were the best time. Every where you go, different people say different things about when music was really music. They all refer to a different era. I don't do rap. But I hear alot of rap that I like.

>Malcom Cato: But there is that golden era. Even the hip hop guys are after that sound from those years.

>Trouble: Surly it is just about liking good music. But like tomorrow night at United Fists of Funk in Reading I will be playing six hours of funk. Sold funk.Because that is what that crowd want. But if I play at Deepfunk at Jo Jo's I will mix in some Jazz, Latin and Disco. Even House releases. Because that is what the crowds want there. As Mr Bell said it is about giving people a good time. That is what inspires me. However I would say that now is almost certainly the best era for quality funk nights, if that is what you want. All the good stuff is now concentrated.

At this point a figure emerges from behind a box of records, and I recognise him as the infamous bootlegger, Nicholas of Soul Patrol fame.

>JT: So tell me Mr. Bell, what do you think of all these compilation records that are out?

>JB: I have not thought about it. It depends on the people who buy the album. Normally you get one or two songs on them that you night like.

>Malcom Cato: What if you came over to play in England, and you saw a compilation, that had sixteen corners on it, and you had not given your permission?

>JB: Without my permission, I would not like it at all.

>MC: But what about the exposure that it could give you?

>JB: No one has a right the right to take, borrow or steal something that belongs to another person. Under any circumstances.

>Gerald: What if you walk down the street, and you find something, say an old record. But you can not find who it belongs to?

>JB: It is not yours, and it would have some kind of identification on it.

>JT: But what about a record, say Egg Roll, which is a very famous record over here. Keb Darge found it, but is is on a dub plate from Virtue studios, but we do not know yet who the band is. Should that be put on a compilation?

>MC: Also in a way, if these compilations had not been put out maybe we would not have come out looking for you in Indianapolis. You know? Lets get the music spread.

>JB: Like I said, there is always a way. But if all possible ways have been explored of finding the person, then you have the right to use what you have found. What ever identifying marks are on that record, you go as far as you possibly can. After you have exhorsted every possible way, then it is yours.

>JT: So if you do not have the resources to find these people, should the record not be put out?

>JB: For me, it should not be put out.

>Malcom Cato: What about if say, your sixteen corners which is very rare. There are like a couple of copies in good enough condition to play out. What if the DJ who had one of these copies covers it up. Covers the label so that no one else can see who the band is. To keep it as a secret, so it is unique to that DJ.

>JB: If it is his record he can do what he wants with it.

>JT: But if sixteen corners had been covered up, then no one would have known about you, and it would not have been a big hit again.

>JB: No I do not think that is wrong. What I believe is that you will get what is coming to you in life. If it meant for you to get more money then you will get it. I made plenty money off of Sixteen Corners when it first came out. I was satisfied. I was completely satisfied, you know. This what is happening now is a plus. Funky Sixteen Corners, has already done for me, what I wanted it to do. I was satisfied. After you are satisfied, anything else is just added onto that satisfaction. Like if I buy my wife a fur coat, she is very happy with the fur coat. It has been her life's dream. Now she has her fur coat, I mean the next year I may buy her a fur hat. She likes it, that is an added plus to her fur coat. I am alot different to other people, okay. I do not depend on other people to satisfy me. I am my own worse critic. Once I satisfy myself everything is fine. I was completely satisfied with funky sixteen corners. Completely. Myself personally, and that is all I want out of life. Is to be satisfied with me.

>MC: I would say though that you were lucky that Keb found your record though.

>JB: Yeah, but that is a plus! I am even more satisfied. However it will never reach the level of satisfaction that I obtained from creating it in the first place. Nothing will happen now that will make me more pleased with myself.

>JT: I find it interesting that you made alot of money. Because alot of people over here seem to think that all the artists back then were these poor hard done by, oppressed black people. Unable to make it in the white music industry.

>JB: This view point is my view point, because I do not seek my satisfaction from the outside. I seek it from within. If I create something , but firstly I want you to know that I have never been poor. I have never been rich, but never poor. Okay, so me creating Funky Sixteen Corners was not an avenue to getting paid, it was an avenue for me to express myself. And once that has happened, I am happy.

>JT: I find it surprising that the record was bigger back then than it is now. You have said you had commercial success, how many copies were pressed, because it is now so rare to find?

>JB: Because things are alot different in the United States than they are here in London. You say Funky Sixteen Corners is rare, but so are turn tables, and those middles to go in a seven inch. You can not buy those any more in the States. No one keeps old records. They throw them away, apart from collectors.

>JT: Can you remember how many copies of Sixteen Corners you pressed up?

>JB: A little over three thousand. Three orders of 1000 copies each. And then there was still the demand from the whole saler. And he called me and he needed some more. That I am sure of. Any after that I can not remember, it has been 31 years now! Popping Popcorn I did 1000 and a few more over that, but then Rojam did a load more that I did not know about. That is what the 3 diamonds on Sixteen Corners was about. COs you see, if you get me once that is you problem, but if you get me twice that is my problem. You understand?

>JT: Yeah, and overall that is a lot of copies.

>JB: See, the thing is WTLC, the radio station they rated their records every week. As to what was number one, down to 40 I think. The Funky Sixteen Corners was being played, and Popping Popcorn, against tunes like James Brown, Dyke and the Blazers, Wilson Picket, at the same time. Popping Popcorn made number one, locally. Locally it made number one, but it was up against the national competition. The listeners ordered it so much, it sold more records than what James Brown, Wilson Picket and all that sold. And trying to get chosen made number 7 and Sixteen Corners number 2.

>JT: Did you sell your records nation wide?

>JB: No.

>JT: Why, when you were achieving such local success?

>JB: First of all, there were no major labels in the Indianapolis area. Second thing is lack of knowledge. We did not know how to get a record distributed at the time. And we were playing all the time you know. We did not get out and go to say Chess Records, Atlantic trying to publish our product.

>JT: Do you still perform now?

>JB: Yes, at festivals.

>JT: What are your plans for the future? Maybe reforming the Highlighters for us, I have heard that rumor?

>JB: I have not heard that. No we will probably get together and do something, the ones who are still playing. We were all together in January, because of the death of a very close friend of ours. The Keyboard player from the band, so we were all there.